Return to HomePage, The Physical Setting
<Joerg>
Most of this has been lifted from WhiteWall Locales to get an idea of the lay of the land. Most recently, I have added a text about Map Making to my database-related pages. There I discovered a serious problem: Scale.
The Plateau - Discussion
The Tor - describes the plateau and the tunnels and cisterns
<John> The Tor is the outcrop on which the city stands. Some people seem to be using it for the entire six-eight mile long plateau of which the Tor is but an outcrop. Has anyone suggested a name for the entire plateau?</John>
<Jane>Something-moor or something-fell were being suggested. I believe mythically it's where Helemakt lay down for a bit, and the humps and bumps reflect this?
For now, the Fellmoor? A bit basic, but better than nothing? </Jane>
<Joerg> This is a tentative map, basically a proposal where to place some of these places. I am not at all sure about the scale of the thing, or the size of the fortress atop the Tor.
The Tor got another height line around the base line. </Joerg>
Very nice! Minor quibble: The main north south road, according to the published maps, will be off this map and off the plateau, about six miles to the east. The climb to the top of the plateau should be difficult in spots, and involve a ravine-spanning bridge or two. Does the old (pre-Tarkalor) road still exist, or did Tarkalor upgrade it with his own? <John>
<Joerg> The pre-Tarkalor road probably would lead to the base of the stairs leading not only down the Tor but also down the Plateau. It could well be the connection of the Markdale trail towards the highway.
It appears to be consensus that - at least for some time in 1619, prior to the failed assaults under Jorkandros, and probably again in 1621 - the Plateau is under Lunar control, who even maintain a camp somewhere up there.
If so, then my map probably has Tarkalor's Bridge way too long. </Joerg>
<Donald> The Lunar camp doesn't necessarily mean they control the plateau, I think there is a camp between the Last Drop Pool and Ramsdrift Climb but for most of the siege the plateau is disputed territory. After the BatBlat the Lunars are kicked off but only when Tatius has brought a lot of troops in does he manage to block access to the plateau. </Donald>
<Joerg> Lunar presence on the plateau for the assaults makes sense, but for much of 1620 I'd prefer the plateau to be disputed territory. </Joerg>
<Donald> That's what I'm suggesting, the Lunars struggle to keep an advance camp on the plateau while the Orlanthi do their best to kick them off. If there isn't a camp there or somewhere near it just becomes a place for the Lunars to send troops for a punch up. With a camp there they can attempt to blockade that side of the city - although with the troops they have until late 1620 they aren't going to manage it. </Donald>
<Joerg> Ok. So I entered a couple of meaningless hilltops and made the map broader. Is Desdrylna's Forest (Desdrylnaswood) meant to be on the plateau, or near the main camp?
Did I address most of the requested changes, or is there still much to be done (besides getting nice graphics)?
On a related note - I'm researching GIS (geographical information systems) right now, especially GRASS, an open source one. Is there anybody out here with experience with such a beast? </Joerg>
<Donald>I was thinking Desdrylna's Forest should be near Last Drop Pool to leave it accessible to the defenders until right at the end. If the pool itself is within the forest it prevents the Lunars poisoning what appears to be part of the water supply to WW.</Donald>
<John>The Forest has been exploited by the city for wood etc. for some time, and so the nearest approaches are probably long-felled. I have no clear idea of its location, but it needs to be accessible to both the beseiged and the beseigers. It's where they parley.</John>
<Joerg> Near Last Drop Pool, then, in the next revision. Will the forest be subject to the Dead Sea Rising or the BatSplat? </Joerg>
<Donald>It would be rather fun if the Dead Sea Rising lapped round the edges of the forest, leaving somewhere for Lunars to flee to. What they do after that is another question.</Donald>
<Joerg> Here's another draft, this time with the forest, more space on the Plateau, and no details for the rise to Sestarto's Leap yet. Sorry about changing the landscape so often... </Joerg>
Remaining Mistakes in the Map
Checking the LoT map, the Markdale trail has to be north of the Fellmoor peak, not south. Not a problem, though, since the valley just east of Caughtarrow Ridge does nicely.
The LoT map has Whitwall mostly south of the Fellmoor, so I have been lucky with my proposals so far. However: if it is only 3 miles flight to the road junction, then the entire Tor needs to be fortified.
John is right about the distance from the main road. The current map has only 2 miles, it needs to get another mile.
This time, I'd broaden the Plateau a bit, so that the distance between the Tor and Caughtarrow Ridge gets doubled. I'll have a try manipulating Matt's vectorial format...
<John>Can we think about about defences for the approach road as it climbs the plateau? Fortifications above the road, some cliff hugging, and the oft mentioned bridge across a raving that can be later taken out. </John>
<Joerg> The approach road doesn't exactly climb the plateau, but is separated from it by the canyon of Helamakt's Drizzle. Which of course gives extra vector for flying in/out, so this is the desired result?
The road up Sestarto's Leap right now is depicted as following a lesser, broad ridge rising from the Whitewall road junction to Sestarto's Leap. All I need to do to make this more interesting and defensible is to include more interruptions in the ridge, stretches of narrow passages on the top or on flanks of steep drops, and there we are. Lots of lesser bridges to be built, a look and feel similar to the Boldhome-Jonstown road south of Geo's Ridge Inn. Rather than purpose-built defenses, how about various altars to minor landscape daimones providing magical fire support? </Joerg>
<John> Joerg's map is extremely helpful and coming along very nicely, but it still gives no concept of the Plateau (Jane has suggested we call it Fellmoor).
I think there has been some confusion between the Tor, which is the outcrop upon which WW sites, and the Fellmoor itself, which is much larger.
Whitewall sits on the Tor which sits on a rather large plateau (Fellmoor) at the top of Northvale, on the eastern edge of Destor's Hills. According to the published maps (which I don't have in front of me right now), Fellmoor is one of the largest hills in the entire range, and rises to the west of the main Sartar-Heortland road. Remember that Whitewall is isolated - so much so that it has failed as a city. So the road up the plateau should be difficult, with steep rises, ravine spanning bridges, and no doubt some fortifications that look down on the road from the heights above. Tricky, in other words. </John>
<Joerg> If we want a picturesque access to the city, with ravines etc., then this should happen on the path from Sestarto's Leap to the east.
<John> Option A: If Joerg's map is intended to be the only the top of Fellmoor (and this makes most sense to me), then the approach road leading east from the city should continue east off the map. The main highway is quite a few miles further east, and wouldn't climb the plateau when it can skirt it, which is what the published maps suggest. </John>
<Joerg> My intention was to have the "Hillback" of the Fellmoor happen mostly northeast of this map:
Again, this is a very rough, five minute draft to illustrate the discussion. (Not taking into account the subsequent widening of the Plateau, either, although that brings us closer to agree with the LoT and Auroch Hills maps.) (Basically I shrunk the first map to 70% and placed it in the bottom right corner...)
I need some more feedback on the Tor: should John's city outline cover the entire Tor (as in the map above), or only its eastern end, between the two rises still visible through John's city outline? </Joerg>
<John> Option B: If that north-south road is really the highway, then we seem to have lost the entire Fellmoor, and need to really up the verticality. But the scale doesn't seem right for this approach to work.
By way of rough scale, can we assume that the long axis of the city is say... 900 metres?
I suggest that option A is the most logical.
Sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record about this. I need a few ravines. :)
</John>